Difference between revisions of "208 15 403649"

From CellMapper Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
(Page updated with new position, antenna placed and ANFR ID found.)
(Page updated with new position, antenna placed and ANFR ID found.)
Line 1: Line 1:
'''[https://www.cartoradio.fr/index.html#/cartographie/lonlat/5.338611111111/46.194722222222 Support ANFR n°448850 ( H:40m)]'''
'''[https://www.cartoradio.fr/index.html#/cartographie/lonlat/5.3386/46.1947 Support ANFR n°448850 ( H:40m)]'''


'''Opérateurs sur ce support (ANFR):'''[https://www.cellmapper.net/map?MCC=208&MNC=10&type=LTE&latitude=46.194698&longitude=5.33863&zoom=15&showTowers=true&showIcons=false&showTowerLabels=true&clusterEnabled=false&tilesEnabled=false&showOrphans=true&showNoFrequencyOnly=false&showFrequencyOnly=false&showBandwidthOnly=false&DateFilterType=None&showHex=false&showVerifiedOnly=false&showUnverifiedOnly=false&showLTECAOnly=false&showENDCOnly=false&showBand=0&showSectorColours=true&mapType=roadmap&darkMode=false&imperialUnits=false 🔴][https://www.cellmapper.net/map?MCC=208&MNC=15&type=LTE&latitude=46.194698&longitude=5.33863&zoom=15&showTowers=true&showIcons=false&showTowerLabels=true&clusterEnabled=false&tilesEnabled=false&showOrphans=true&showNoFrequencyOnly=false&showFrequencyOnly=false&showBandwidthOnly=false&DateFilterType=None&showHex=false&showVerifiedOnly=false&showUnverifiedOnly=false&showLTECAOnly=false&showENDCOnly=false&showBand=0&showSectorColours=true&mapType=roadmap&darkMode=false&imperialUnits=false ⚫][https://www.cellmapper.net/map?MCC=208&MNC=20&type=LTE&latitude=46.194698&longitude=5.33863&zoom=15&showTowers=true&showIcons=false&showTowerLabels=true&clusterEnabled=false&tilesEnabled=false&showOrphans=true&showNoFrequencyOnly=false&showFrequencyOnly=false&showBandwidthOnly=false&DateFilterType=None&showHex=false&showVerifiedOnly=false&showUnverifiedOnly=false&showLTECAOnly=false&showENDCOnly=false&showBand=0&showSectorColours=true&mapType=roadmap&darkMode=false&imperialUnits=false 🔵]
'''Opérateurs sur ce support (ANFR):'''[https://www.cellmapper.net/map?MCC=208&MNC=10&type=LTE&latitude=46.194698&longitude=5.33863&zoom=15&showTowers=true&showIcons=false&showTowerLabels=true&clusterEnabled=false&tilesEnabled=false&showOrphans=true&showNoFrequencyOnly=false&showFrequencyOnly=false&showBandwidthOnly=false&DateFilterType=None&showHex=false&showVerifiedOnly=false&showUnverifiedOnly=false&showLTECAOnly=false&showENDCOnly=false&showBand=0&showSectorColours=true&mapType=roadmap&darkMode=false&imperialUnits=false 🔴][https://www.cellmapper.net/map?MCC=208&MNC=15&type=LTE&latitude=46.194698&longitude=5.33863&zoom=15&showTowers=true&showIcons=false&showTowerLabels=true&clusterEnabled=false&tilesEnabled=false&showOrphans=true&showNoFrequencyOnly=false&showFrequencyOnly=false&showBandwidthOnly=false&DateFilterType=None&showHex=false&showVerifiedOnly=false&showUnverifiedOnly=false&showLTECAOnly=false&showENDCOnly=false&showBand=0&showSectorColours=true&mapType=roadmap&darkMode=false&imperialUnits=false ⚫][https://www.cellmapper.net/map?MCC=208&MNC=20&type=LTE&latitude=46.194698&longitude=5.33863&zoom=15&showTowers=true&showIcons=false&showTowerLabels=true&clusterEnabled=false&tilesEnabled=false&showOrphans=true&showNoFrequencyOnly=false&showFrequencyOnly=false&showBandwidthOnly=false&DateFilterType=None&showHex=false&showVerifiedOnly=false&showUnverifiedOnly=false&showLTECAOnly=false&showENDCOnly=false&showBand=0&showSectorColours=true&mapType=roadmap&darkMode=false&imperialUnits=false 🔵]


'''[https://www.cartoradio.fr/index.html#/cartographie/lonlat/5.338611111111/46.194722222222 CARTORADIO]'''
'''[https://www.cartoradio.fr/index.html#/cartographie/lonlat/5.3386/46.1947 CARTORADIO]'''


'''[https://data.anfr.fr/anfr/visualisation/table/?id=dd11fac6-4531-4a27-9c8c-a3a9e4ec2107&refine.sup_id=448850 ANFR]'''
'''[https://data.anfr.fr/visualisation/table/?id=observatoire_2g_3g_4g&refine.sup_id=448850 ANFR]'''


'''[https://enb-analytics.fr/page_recherche_analyse.html?type=enb&plmn=20815&val=403649 EAnalytics]'''
'''[https://enb-analytics.fr/page_recherche_analyse.html?type=enb&plmn=20815&val=403649 EAnalytics]'''
Line 11: Line 11:
'''[https://rncmobile.net/site/5046 RNC Mobile:✅]'''
'''[https://rncmobile.net/site/5046 RNC Mobile:✅]'''


'''[https://www.google.com/maps/search/?api=1&query=46.194722222222%2C5.338611111111 MAPS]'''
'''[https://www.google.com/maps/search/?api=1&query=46.1947%2C5.3386 MAPS]'''


Distance comparaison ANFR: 3m
Distance comparaison ANFR: 46m


'''{{:ANFR ID 448850}}'''
'''{{:ANFR ID 448850}}'''

Revision as of 23:33, 12 December 2023

Support ANFR n°448850 ( H:40m)

Opérateurs sur ce support (ANFR):🔴⚫🔵

CARTORADIO

ANFR

EAnalytics

RNC Mobile:✅

MAPS

Distance comparaison ANFR: 46m

Support ANFR n°448850 🗺️/📷
Nature Tour hertzienne
Hauteur TOT 40.0m
Propriétaire TDF
Exploitants BOUYGUES TELECOM, EDF, FREE MOBILE, SFR, TDF
Nb antennes 51
Antenne EDF
Hauteur 37.0m
Type Groundplane
Orientation (1) N/A
Emetteur(s)
COM TER
- EDF: ✅ 22/09/2014
↳ 0.7 MHz (68.5 MHz-69.2 MHz)
↳ 0.8 MHz (72.5 MHz-73.3 MHz)
Antenne TDF
Hauteur 22.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 219.2°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- TDF: ✅ 03/03/2009
↳ 0.4 GHz (12.8 GHz-13.2 GHz)
- TDF: ✅ 24/12/1996
↳ 0.4 GHz (12.8 GHz-13.2 GHz)
Antenne TDF
Hauteur 25.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 92.3°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- TDF: ✅ 03/03/2009
↳ 0.4 GHz (12.8 GHz-13.2 GHz)
- TDF: ✅ 24/12/1996
↳ 0.4 GHz (12.8 GHz-13.2 GHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 25.3m
Type Panneau
Orientations (3) 90.0°, 210.0°, 310.0°
Emetteur(s)
5G - 5G NR 700
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 15/12/2020
↳ 10.0 MHz (723.0 MHz-733.0 MHz)
↳ 10.0 MHz (778.0 MHz-788.0 MHz)
4G - LTE 1800
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 25/11/2016
↳ 15.0 MHz (1750.0 MHz-1765.0 MHz)
↳ 15.0 MHz (1845.0 MHz-1860.0 MHz)
4G - LTE 2100
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 22/10/2021
↳ 14.8 MHz (1950.1 MHz-1964.9 MHz)
↳ 14.8 MHz (2140.1 MHz-2154.9 MHz)
4G - LTE 2600
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 09/09/2015
↳ 20.0 MHz (2550.0 MHz-2570.0 MHz)
↳ 20.0 MHz (2670.0 MHz-2690.0 MHz)
4G - LTE 700
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 23/12/2019
↳ 10.0 MHz (723.0 MHz-733.0 MHz)
↳ 10.0 MHz (778.0 MHz-788.0 MHz)
3G - UMTS 900
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 17/12/2013
↳ 5.0 MHz (899.9 MHz-904.9 MHz)
↳ 5.0 MHz (944.9 MHz-949.9 MHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 13.5m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 255.4°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 15/08/2015
↳ 0.2 GHz (18.6 GHz-18.8 GHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 25.5m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 161.5°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 17/11/2015
↳ 0.5 GHz (18.8 GHz-19.3 GHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 25.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 234.6°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 04/07/2017
↳ 3.0 GHz (71.0 GHz-74.0 GHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 25.8m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 265.3°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 31/07/2018
↳ 0.5 GHz (18.8 GHz-19.3 GHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 30.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 327.9°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 31/07/2018
↳ 0.5 GHz (18.8 GHz-19.3 GHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 35.4m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 78.9°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 20/08/2018
↳ 0.3 GHz (32.0 GHz-32.3 GHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 35.4m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 101.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 11/02/2019
↳ 0.3 GHz (32.0 GHz-32.3 GHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 33.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 204.1°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 02/11/2023
↳ 0.5 GHz (18.8 GHz-19.3 GHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 31.5m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 0.4°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 21/11/2019
↳ 0.2 GHz (18.6 GHz-18.8 GHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 33.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 74.9°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 30/07/2020
↳ 0.2 GHz (18.6 GHz-18.8 GHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 33.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 58.4°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 22/01/2021
↳ 0.5 GHz (18.8 GHz-19.3 GHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 35.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 199.5°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 10/11/2022
↳ 0.3 GHz (32.0 GHz-32.3 GHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 25.8m
Type Antenne à faisceaux orientables
Orientations (3) 90.0°, 210.0°, 310.0°
Emetteur(s)
5G - 5G NR 3500
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ✅ 02/09/2024
↳ 70.0 MHz (3640.0 MHz-3710.0 MHz)
Antenne FREE MOBILE
Hauteur 32.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 298.1°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- ⬛ FREE MOBILE: ❓
↳ 0.3 GHz (32.0 GHz-32.3 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM, SFR
Hauteur 25.4m
Type Panneau
Orientations (3) 210.0°, 315.0°, 90.0°
Emetteur(s)
5G - 5G NR 2100
- 🟥 SFR: ✅ 02/09/2022
↳ 14.8 MHz (1920.5 MHz-1935.3 MHz)
↳ 14.8 MHz (2110.5 MHz-2125.3 MHz)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 28/04/2022
↳ 14.8 MHz (1935.3 MHz-1950.1 MHz)
↳ 14.8 MHz (2125.3 MHz-2140.1 MHz)
4G - LTE 1800
- 🟥 SFR: ✅ 06/07/2018
↳ 20.0 MHz (1730.0 MHz-1750.0 MHz)
↳ 20.0 MHz (1825.0 MHz-1845.0 MHz)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 21/11/2017
↳ 20.0 MHz (1765.0 MHz-1785.0 MHz)
↳ 20.0 MHz (1860.0 MHz-1880.0 MHz)
4G - LTE 2100
- 🟥 SFR: ✅ 26/01/2021
↳ 14.8 MHz (1920.5 MHz-1935.3 MHz)
↳ 14.8 MHz (2110.5 MHz-2125.3 MHz)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 17/02/2021
↳ 14.8 MHz (1935.3 MHz-1950.1 MHz)
↳ 14.8 MHz (2125.3 MHz-2140.1 MHz)
4G - LTE 2600
- 🟥 SFR: ✅ 30/01/2019
↳ 15.0 MHz (2500.0 MHz-2515.0 MHz)
↳ 15.0 MHz (2620.0 MHz-2635.0 MHz)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 04/02/2019
↳ 15.0 MHz (2535.0 MHz-2550.0 MHz)
↳ 15.0 MHz (2655.0 MHz-2670.0 MHz)
4G - LTE 700
- 🟥 SFR: ✅ 02/09/2022
↳ 5.0 MHz (703.0 MHz-708.0 MHz)
↳ 5.0 MHz (758.0 MHz-763.0 MHz)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 10/08/2022
↳ 5.0 MHz (718.0 MHz-723.0 MHz)
↳ 5.0 MHz (773.0 MHz-778.0 MHz)
4G - LTE 800
- 🟥 SFR: ✅ 06/07/2018
↳ 10.0 MHz (801.0 MHz-811.0 MHz)
↳ 10.0 MHz (842.0 MHz-852.0 MHz)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 21/11/2017
↳ 10.0 MHz (791.0 MHz-801.0 MHz)
↳ 10.0 MHz (832.0 MHz-842.0 MHz)
3G - UMTS 900
- 🟥 SFR: ✅ 15/06/2018
↳ 8.7 MHz (906.2 MHz-914.9 MHz)
↳ 8.7 MHz (951.2 MHz-959.9 MHz)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 27/10/2010
↳ 9.8 MHz (880.1 MHz-889.9 MHz)
↳ 9.8 MHz (925.1 MHz-934.9 MHz)
2G - GSM 900
- 🟥 SFR: ✅ 21/09/2001
↳ 8.7 MHz (906.2 MHz-914.9 MHz)
↳ 8.7 MHz (951.2 MHz-959.9 MHz)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 21/01/1998
↳ 9.8 MHz (880.1 MHz-889.9 MHz)
↳ 9.8 MHz (925.1 MHz-934.9 MHz)
Antenne SFR
Hauteur 20.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 161.5°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟥 SFR: ✅ 02/04/2012
↳ 1.0 GHz (10.7 GHz-11.7 GHz)
Antenne SFR
Hauteur 25.2m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 11.8°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟥 SFR: ✅ 09/05/2019
↳ 275.0 MHz (6425.0 MHz-6700.0 MHz)
↳ 375.0 MHz (6700.0 MHz-7075.0 MHz)
Antenne SFR
Hauteur 13.5m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 163.7°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟥 SFR: ✅ 02/11/2020
↳ 1.0 GHz (10.7 GHz-11.7 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM, SFR
Hauteur 26.3m
Type Antenne à faisceaux orientables
Orientations (3) 90.0°, 210.0°, 315.0°
Emetteur(s)
5G - 5G NR 3500
- 🟥 SFR: ✅ 14/09/2022
↳ 80.0 MHz (3490.0 MHz-3570.0 MHz)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 24/06/2022
↳ 70.0 MHz (3570.0 MHz-3640.0 MHz)
Antenne SFR
Hauteur 25.2m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 11.8°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟥 SFR: ❓
↳ 0.4 GHz (12.8 GHz-13.2 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 13.8m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 0.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 27/05/2013
↳ 0.4 GHz (19.3 GHz-19.7 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 12.7m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 238.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 31/05/2018
↳ 1.0 GHz (10.7 GHz-11.7 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 13.8m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 58.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 15/06/2017
↳ 0.5 GHz (18.8 GHz-19.3 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 24.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 172.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 30/11/2021
↳ 0.8 GHz (25.5 GHz-26.3 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 25.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 337.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 13/09/2017
↳ 0.5 GHz (18.8 GHz-19.3 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 25.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientations (2) 337.0°, 2.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 06/02/2019
↳ 0.5 GHz (18.8 GHz-19.3 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 12.7m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 231.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 16/12/2021
↳ 0.5 GHz (18.8 GHz-19.3 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 25.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 227.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 25/03/2022
↳ 0.5 GHz (18.8 GHz-19.3 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 25.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 254.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 03/02/2022
↳ 1.0 GHz (10.7 GHz-11.7 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 13.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 207.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 25/04/2022
↳ 0.5 GHz (18.8 GHz-19.3 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 25.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 34.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 05/08/2022
↳ 0.5 GHz (18.8 GHz-19.3 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 14.5m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 257.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ✅ 16/06/2022
↳ 3.0 GHz (71.0 GHz-74.0 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 13.5m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 5.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ❓
↳ 0.5 GHz (18.8 GHz-19.3 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 13.6m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 261.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ❓
↳ 0.3 GHz (32.0 GHz-32.3 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 13.5m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 238.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ❓
↳ 3.0 GHz (71.0 GHz-74.0 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 15.0m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 31.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ❓
↳ 0.5 GHz (18.8 GHz-19.3 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 13.6m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 237.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ❓
↳ 0.4 GHz (19.3 GHz-19.7 GHz)
Antenne BOUYGUES TELECOM
Hauteur 19.5m
Type Antenne parabolique
Orientation (1) 199.0°
Emetteur(s)
FH (CARTE)
- 🟦 BOUYGUES TELECOM: ❓
↳ 0.1 GHz (23.0 GHz-23.1 GHz)
Station N°0010230003
Exploitant EDF
Implantation 31/12/1963
Mise en service 22/09/2014
Modification 20/03/2020
Station N°0010770018
Exploitant TDF
Implantation 07/07/2006
Mise en service 24/12/1996
Modification 26/10/2018
Station N°0010990027
Exploitant FREE MOBILE
Implantation 08/11/2013
Mise en service 17/12/2013
Modification 30/08/2024
Station N°0012700001
Exploitant SFR
Implantation 07/04/1989
Mise en service 21/09/2001
Modification 19/01/2024
Station N°0012750039
Exploitant BOUYGUES TELECOM
Implantation 26/09/1997
Mise en service 21/01/1998
Modification 13/09/2024

Cette antenne

Index France (208)


Retrieved from "https://docs.cellmapper.net/mw/index.php?title=208_15_403649&oldid=851836"